Emilio Persian: "This ending an era and starting a new"
Emilio Persian: "This ending an era and starting a new"
Written by Paco Agency Urondo
Federal Capital (Paco Urondo Agency) In a lengthy interview, Emilio Persian responsible Prevents Movement, spoke to Ana and Jose Cornejo Natalucci, Paco Urondo Agency on the unit fractions kirchnerismo militants and the beginning of a new stage since the death of Nestor Kirchner. Persian addressed topics such as the loss to the dictatorship, neoliberalism and the three legs of Kirchner: The partidocrática, the union and a third still failed to qualify, but already has a name, the National Power Militancy and Social Policy. In the middle, also appeared Pino Solanas, José Pablo Feinmann and a certain youth who tries to make the race official. " The interview was held on Monday 8, a day of the first act in Congress Square. Paco Agency
Urondo: What is the meaning of the launch of the National Power Militancy and Social Policy to be held on Tuesday (it was on 9 November) and the act of Congress on 17 November? Emilio
Persian: There is a space that was configured kirchnerismo from the first act of Ferro (July 2009), Chico Ferro say. Then consolidated with the other Ferro (March 11, 2010), the Ferro Grande. What we are trying is to convene a larger space of all the organizations and independent spaces to discuss and build an agenda forward to see how the situation develops. At that time was to make clear that Nestor was a candidate. The central task was to go to Nestor, gain or keep the flags and give them content. Today the situation is different and there is no dispute that the candidate will be Cristina. But there may be constraints Cristina to transfer power back to the 'party.
APU: Are they afraid that the most reactionary sectors of the PJ, the Federal Peronism, enter the kirchnerismo to condition?
EP: In many cases, there is no difference between which are inside and those outside. The inside and outside sometimes by circumstance, by a local policy. And neither is exclusive of Peronism, also occurs with radicalism. There are colleagues who have a governor or mayors radicals and methodologies are the same. Here there was a party-that turned into a machinery of power and politics robbed us as a transformation tool. When Nestor returned the policy, workers began making politics: Moyano flow began, youth union also put together a current, popular and social organizations were also part of the political process. Look, the Yrigoyenism will be recognized because it joined the middle class, which in reality were migrant workers who came to Argentina. Peronism incorporated in 45 workers as the subject participating in the political process. In '73, Peronism also added youth as a collective. Nestor came to give life to those individuals who were, whether social organizations, the CGT or young. I returned the policy to those who had been the protagonists during other times of national history. The party-going to try again that politics once again be only one tool out of the leadership. Machinery where little importance militancy let the image, pretty face.
APU: Does the device?
EP: Sometimes it is the device, others do not. Sometimes it is propaganda or silver. Narvaez had no equipment, had money, a pretty face and an advertisement that did get in the Suburbs. This is a machine where the protagonist is not militant, but the leader. One political career began as a pointer in the neighborhood, continued as a reference, I finished being a candidate. When the time came that painted "Fulanito Driving", that was the senior policy link. Well, that's the policy that was broken in 2001 and many want to return, where the lists of candidates section were chosen by election, not by belief or social sector, but by territoriality. Where the league of governors had more political weight than the president of the Party, in short, a lot of unwritten rules that we have lived liberal policy in the '90s.
APU: How the league of mayors in the province of Buenos Aires?
EP: The league of mayors of the conurbation is the Roman Senate. In the province of Buenos Aires there are different branches, is the governor, the President of the Republic, deputies and senators, the provincial legislature and is ... that has more power, the Roman Senate who are mayors. With Nestor was another factor of power. The president of the PJ in the province, comes from union power, many colleagues who are in the Party Council, come from other areas of activism. Is the (deputy) Adela (Segarra), for example, partners who come from another building policy. We are all needed in a process, but there are guys that are essential. Nestor was one of those essential and there is no way to replace it. A colleague told me "I had a partner, what is the speaker?". When you start with the questions they want political vultures Nestor space. Nestor was not a party, was conducting a trial. Must be replaced as it replaces essential: together. Today that group is the militant, youth, the poor, those who came out of hell, the militants believe. Our job is to organize the space, build that leg so that Cristina has all the tools to conduct this process. If not, can become mired in the photo of the corporation.
APU: These releases, do they come to enhance this activism?
EP: Come up with a position for discussion. Is not closed, because the right ideas are in progress. We have to go to a very large current, non-sectarian, to express the whole of what the militant Kirchner, with commitment social, expressing all the sectors linked to the unit, who see politics differently. It's like the third leg of Kirchner. On the one hand there is the association, other traditional and this is another thing. I do not know how to define it. When was the de Ferro, some media referred to Peronism or noninstitutional Kirchner. Nor is it good that definition because here is fellow congressmen, senators, mayors. It deals with a methodology where the representation is constructed from the militancy and politics, and not from "Fulanito Driving." It is built from a place that breaks the neoliberal policies of this democracy. On Tuesday we
a plenary metropolitan, 17 will be a national plenary of the 24 provinces. There have been plenary sessions, meetings ... the Kirchner is in state of alert, as it was after the election or defeat of a "crisis of the field." Emerge after a political line, an agenda. By February, March, we have to be on the street again, with a clear line of strengthening Cristina. In this political space, there are several things to replace Nestor. An assembly is its ability to maintain unity among all these sectors. Another is to be the bumper of the government of Cristina. That is, when the weekend at the top Clarin titled "40% inflation" me Nestor imagined going to an event and saying, "What is it you write Magnetto inflation? The inflation that you have is you I do not know, making a joke, it became clear that inflation is Magnetto, is neither the real nor INDEC. We do not have to do the President, is a task that has to come from the membership. Finally there is the struggle that we have to take this space to have representation within the next power scheme.
APU: militancy, much encouraged by Kirchner, has grown. However, these forces are always very dispersed, with difficulty to discuss counter-conditioning power or other sectors, to take a space in the elections, even to have a clear political line. What is the self that is done on militancy since 2003 and how can this be changed?
EP: Neoliberalism cut us to pieces. Since the coup (in 1976) workers were losing power, conquest, if you will, inclusion. The policy also fell. One of the aims of the dictatorship was to separate workers from politics, to divide the political from the social sectors and on all of the most humble, young and leave it as a career. When it happens the bulldozer ... I passed the bulldozer. I tell a story. One day we called Nestor to what we were seeing. Occurred (non-resignation of Central Bank Governor, Martin) Redrado, and we were on canvas, terribly. Kristin had made a law and we were with silver inside, but destroying it means politically. Then we were going to see Nestor, thinking "well, we called for this mess." Along the way, telefoneábamos leaders kirchnerismo first level to tell us what the situation was, to give us a perspective, because Nestor always asking us what we thought.
APU: How to have something to say (laughter).
EP: Let's say "we made m ... but we're going forward, "I do not know. Some would say, "Chau, we lost, we have to go, it was all over, things like that. Then we had a mayor, we talked and we were all in the same situation. And enter Nestor. As always fucked for a while and then went to talk to the one who wanted to talk. What I wanted Nestor had nothing to do with what we thought. In fact, we called to see how we organized Ferro (Laughter). We cited to counsel. So when Nestor goes, I say to the mayor, "we all neoliberal bulldozer ran over her head and we are defeated, but it does not, it seems that did not touch it." I mean this, we all spent the neoliberal steamroller.
said is not true that this space does not have lots of partners in the institutions. Now these companions are not the same with the membership. Do you understand what I mean? This space has many representatives in the state and very good, but the enemy managed to build a dichotomy between that and the basic membership, including political representation and that. Because neoliberal democracy does not reward the militants but the leadership awards. To construct the membership is to get into the mud and have to build different values. This division between leadership and grassroots activism in Nestor had ... united, we have divided us. The challenge from here on is put the two together. Join referencing this space policy: Rossi, Filmus, Tomada, Taiana, Garre, fellow first level and have very important responsibilities to the organizations that build every day in the mud. Because the enemy constantly tries to divide the enemy we faced militarily in the popular ... for our mistakes, the enemy, for all, bah. Whenever you end up looking at the error itself first. When Craig says he is envious of the youth of today, I feel envy. Because they have an opportunity that we did not. The fact is that this division there was also inward revolutionary sectors exist.
greatness We have to unite with the understanding that there are political stages and is not always a protagonist in the process. As a generation we had two opportunities, as I said Nestor. One where we did a lot of clubs, is not it, but we put a lot of will and effort. No one can say that we put the leather to our ideas, wrong or not. And another stage now, with much more rationality, where we have begun to address the problems of Argentina. These two opportunities are in Santa Cruz, Nestor are terminated. We can not require a third stage to this generation. What we do us, Cristina and me is to build that bridge to that new being born and that is everywhere. Not the bridge he wants to build Alberto Fernandez to the pretty faces. It is the bridge that can unite these militant organizations with the political reference. It will be difficult because the political reference brings a cost to society, because the space never gets activist to have a social measure ...
APU: Never measure well in the polls.
EP: We do not measure anything, no one knows us (laughter) and those who know us, we do not want. Therefore the main task of this Cristina and Nestor group that we have is to build that bridge of silver, that this generation give the command to another to give historical significance to this process. I do not know if it well, but it is illogical to require that most historically significant Cristina to this process. It is illogical to demand that I travel a candidate and win the province of Buenos Aires What we have to demand that this stage is that bridge. We have the opportunity four years to build this new historical significance.
APU: Do you think this space as a subject other than social workers?
EP: No.
APU: I mean, why is not the same as the CGT?
EP: Because there are different areas in the very heart of the workers. The main objective military dictatorship and the neoliberal model was the workers. Since then, workers rights have been losing every day. Even in democracy! And that loss was a great division among the workers and must return to reunite politically. We need a new state, a new political and social organization. We need three new things. Is not the same Peronist state model of the 40 or 70, with the state model I'm building today or you are building. With workers is the same.
There are things they did and Evita Peron, who advanced as still valid. For example, when Evita framed work activities within the collective agreement, problems arose as the newsboys or rural workers. Who was the pattern?, "The newspaper boy has no pattern? Is the daily newspaper boy pattern. Who discussed the collective agreement? With the owner of the newspaper. That was a breakthrough because it was difficult to relate, was not a direct pattern you had it there in the office. Since then, the complexity is multiplied greatly. This new organization of workers is a new political organization. Look, the other day I went to the elections (university) in La Plata to see some students are organized in this process. They have the idea of \u200b\u200bindependent, But then we chant the slogans chanted us and were even Kirchner. We must build a new political scaffolding in Argentina because the old scaffolding of the national movement helped us to battle against a model of capitalism that is currently lacking. We must continue to adapt and I insist, this generation, the latter task is fulfilled in Santa Cruz. When Nestor actually bury bury this second chance, which was brilliant, we left Argentina on a high floor. The task now is to build that bridge could do Peron in the eighteen years of exile. When a philosopher, with whom I disagree because he sees the story from the hole a lock ...
APU: José Pablo Feinmann?
EP: Yes, see the History for a lock hole, a bit of general history, and that makes history. That's cool, History of coincidences, it seems that everything is pure chance. Well, he said the situation was very different from Peron's death because he had left Isabelita Cristina and Nestor left. At that point, that is the most important thing we have ...
APU: There does agree (laughter)?
EP: Yes, but not because Cristina left to complete the process. No, the advantage is that we have Cristina to build what again. The second opportunity is ending. We have to go to a new generation, a new social and political organization of workers, a new state different from the neoliberal state that we still have.
APU: How do you envision this new organization?
EP: A new organization must have a strong employee participation in the process of association but also politically, joining the two. Under the dictatorship, the trade union militancy, a fellow told me: "What these laburantes thing! Trots vote for delegate to a factory, a colleague of ours for the union's regional secretary and a son of a bureaucrat ... to be in the Federation. " I actually had a reason. Trots wanted to do battle against the bosses, because I knew that was not sold. When our comrades to organize the union, because he was a great organizational skills and gather them all, and the top bureaucrat, as arranged and we were taken to a brothel every day. What do I mean? That was united, is now fragmented. They have managed to fragment the entire performance. We have to unite the flags. The partner can not compete for work and go to the demonstrations with us and then vote to De Narváez.
APU: Something is happening.
EP, Go, is the expression of this crisis of political representation. I fight and I want the Arts student who comes to laburar the neighborhood, which is a great guy, is great but after that I did not vote said the student, ended up voting to de Narvaez who is the enemy for which we in this situation of injustice. That's the change to be achieved in politics, all that reunify. The guy who fights the protest is part of a gear which is also political. Nestor gave me my first clear idea of \u200b\u200bwhat I had to do. I remember I got together with Balestrini, yet he was president. He says, "Look, this is fine organizations social, I love you, all barbaric. " We welcomed, as always well up, I had to tip ... and then you hit the saber.
APU: (laughs)
EP: "But then we Emilio ... no more. At this rate, when we build things we need? What you have to do is - I gave a list of ten members - try to add them to Evita. Go to Pharaoh. " And that was what gave rise to the act of Luna Park (N. of R: the act of launching the Movement Evita, May 2005), the foundation of Evita, where I said that deputies had more attendees. It was right what he said. We fail, we were wrong or do not have the wisdom, but the political line is clear. If we fail to unite the political representation, the organization of the masses, the representation of employees, the enemy has fun with us, up one, down the other, you get hit by the left, destroying the organizations ... For organizations grow but after that You can sustain because not enough to change the situation of power. And the partners they want to change the situation. Growth for growth is good for nothing. If they want to grow, military have to go elsewhere. We have to point to the ability to influence, to change the power situation. And the big change is join.
The enemy uses many tactics, demonizing, showing perverse. I'll say something politically incorrect, but a politician choreo to the water in the vases of the Ministry is frowned upon, but none is in jail. Most politicians I know have always been political and fortune ... something happened in the middle, right? However, (the media) are photographing the homes of union members. The goal is not to destroy this union in particular, but to divide the unions, destroyed as a transformation tool. Look, the union became partners in the economic process, and then reported to be entrepreneurs. Because the terror of the system is that we managed to put all this. Here we are going to have the strength to change and make the country of the dreams of Nestor and Evita. The dream of the country is a dream of political construction. Are linked. That we have seared into all our colleagues, "the greater distribution of income, better organization and more popular grassroots organization, better distribution of income." Political power is linked to your dream. This is not the number of members you have. Lilith Carrio said something that was decisive in the battle field. He said: "This is not won in the parliament." If we Street won, we won the public opinion. And he was right, we won the street.
need more street, more organization, more popular power and the model has to be a model that will facilitate this. Power is not a single variable, is a set of variables, and is related to your economic plan is related to silver. Today we can organize more workers because they have more money in your pocket. At first, the first movements of the unemployed were walkers, but serious hikers. I always carried D'Elia, who walked 25 kms. But that had a relationship with the neighborhood. Why we walked around the day? Because we had no money or the bondi. Today we mobilize many people, even without putting your group because there is much more organized, much more militant, and ... a lot more money in your pocket. The power of labor, the popular organization has to do with income distribution and the model for the country.
No political unity of the workers without economic and social unity of the workers. If all workers earn the same, they have the same rights, if we have the cream of the working class with a salary and fellow European Santiago del Estero or cardboard with a salary of Africa, the country is not stable because it breaks out, sooner or later, there is no possibility of reunification of the working class. Because some will say "This is spectacular, I will defend tooth and nail this model," and others will say "more or less weak, because at the first crisis laburo I run." Nestor talked a lot with why we lost the last election. One of the key issues for us is the laburo. What is the reinsurance of workers to spend a crisis? Their labor rights. We have 40% of the working class in its own right. All the rest have problems. What pattern puts a company outsourced? to give fewer rights to mate. It is very difficult to unify politically the class, but it will come guys like De Narváez or liberals, outdated ...
APU: How Pino Solanas?
EP: No, that's another thing, that we complicate the situation is different.
APU: In all this, what will now mean Nestor in militancy?
EP: And ... the system has a great ability to eat the popular leaders. Was not the same for me Che, that for the kid who takes his shirt today. In my Perón me Peronist guerrilla Che me. If it had not existed, I out there had been a priest and a half right. Will depend on how they remind us Nestor. I saw two things on the Plaza (May, during the duel Kirchner). Many kids were convinced by this model and many people would welcome. In Peron, by contrast, saw a lot more people went to pray or commitment. This is where we have to build that Nestor Class. Where is Nestor? Not in any of the government offices. Nestor This group is in the backpack and the backpack of every young kid who was there, there's a bit of the dream of Nestor. And it will be when these kids get in the Suburbs or in places where there greater injustice. Because it's not about having a youth engaged but is trying to get a degree of official right?
APU: Are you saying that for any youth organization in particular?
EP: I do not say no. But if we can put all this and put the dreams of Nestor, where injustice still ... there goes the stick out of Nestor and Cristina support to solve problems. Here we build that memory of Nestor, the kind that transformed the reality confronting the powerful. And that is why we began to love. The day I met Nestor told me he was going to go four or five steps. I could not agree or disagree with him, but we had the same dreams - I had not voted -. I would be happy if he climbed those steps and if we ubicábamos in the center, not on the margins as we were, if the militancy was at the center of the political construction in order to keep climbing the ladder. Nestor That task accomplished. Mind you, this is not all elections to win, because neither won them (smile), right? Not everything turned to Argentina, which of course I'm grateful, I see all the comrades who have ceased to suffer, all the tears he wiped away, but that's not all that. I I am grateful for that top floor that left us to continue transforming Argentina. They had us locked into a 30% of the population, they locked us up in two walls, and there they worked on a friend of yours this, Solanas (laughs), or enemy. Two walls built on this side a left liberal and the other an anti Peronism. Well, Nestor had been trying to break through these walls, and broke. Today is a very big space to work. This is also part of the floor very high Nestor left us, especially young people and people who are grateful to the political process. It is in us that we can organize.
APU: Do you think that calls for these acts are going to be massive?
EP: No. It is more important the quality than quantity. Arrive at the amount after discussing with colleagues. When we went Chico del Ferro, who was an assembly, the Ferro Grande, we made a construction process. Now we are in the same process. We begin to discuss with peers, express themselves. Then go to a national plenary on 17 November a day of militancy, where more partners argue, with discussions and concerns of its provinces, see what the other thinks like one, and is not a militant different under a flag that the one next to another flag. Nestor told us to grow a hundred flowers and me convinced me. Given this division that led to liberalism in the national and popular, we can not finish the contradictions by decree. We have to give us a process to develop and contradictions are resolved.
If anyone is by the Media Law to other main thing is the culture war, and a third says: "No, the problem is that of laburantes" or have missed stories or leaders who do not agree ... no matter: everybody wants to be in this political space. The process, as I said Nestor, has to be colorful. Alegre, said Che Guevara, but colorful, and synthesizing irlas political facts which we can build an agenda in February or March to be on the streets defending the President, with the bumper that was Nestor, to open the space to the President, taking care of her. She does not need to care for her, because she is a lioness, open space, giving the battles you have to give at that time, so we can continue to transform. I think we left a lot of things and start new things, including giving importance to the flags began Nestor. I think that's the task. (Paco Agency Urondo)
